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NF-Lee's Gildor and Frodo

The Dead Marshes, Pt. 1: “So Bright, So Beautiful…” plus poem by jan-u-wine….

Posted on 2007.04.23 at 11:25

Comments:


Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-04-29 09:32 (UTC) (Link)
Argh, I'm so late in commenting!

Fantastic posts, Mechtild, and wonderful, enlightening comments. Thank you all for this wonder. Jan-u-wine's poem is anew a very moving, illuminating view into Frodo's soul. The part
I will

not

say

I love
you.

gave me goose-bumps. May this Siren fascinate and bedazzle him no end, he won't say what it tries to make him say. And yet, there is a deep burning sense of shame in him that he is that fascinated by this evil thing.

Mechtild, in light of the discussion about Frodo making "love" to the ring, I found an interesting photo on the net. It's from a German photographer and is titled "Minne". Here's the link:
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/cat/326/display/8703960
It is an amazing picture, isn't it? A ring, symbol of love, laying on a book with Heinrich von Veldeke's epic tale ENEIT (from 1180; based on Virgil's Aeneis and the French Roman d'Énéas), underlined by the heart-shaped shadow it casts. I am not sure whether the photographer was aware of that the One Ring isn't exactly the symbol of eternal love though. I rather suspect that he chose the ring because of its attractive look. Still, it is very appealing.


P.S.: I read that you are going to work full-time soon. Congratulations! (Though I have to say I *will* miss your warm and caring presence on LJ...)

*Weekend-hugs*
Mechtild
mechtild at 2007-04-29 12:36 (UTC) (Link)
Thanks so much for the comment, Whiteling. I'll email Jan to tell her you said something about "So bright... so beautiful..." It's a thrilling, chilling, moving look into the scene, isn't it?

And I opened your link. And saved it. What a wonderful illustration of another internal image. I looked at it and thought of Frodo toiling away on the Red Book after the Quest, but haunted by an image of the Ring. How appropriate that it should cast a shadow of a heart.
(Anonymous) at 2007-05-02 02:58 (UTC) (Link)

the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Dear Whiteling, you are not alone in being late in commenting! I am so happy that you enjoyed the poem (though, with these angsty ones, perhaps "enjoy" is not quite the correct word).

I opened the link to the Ring picture and was fascinated by the use of the word "minne". Fascinated enough that I did a bit of research and found that it was an archaic word that *could* mean a love that started off as a courtly kind of thing, but turned into something quite different. Now I really do wonder if the person who made that picture did know what particular Ring he used as his "love interest". It seems to me that he must have, for he might have chosen any of thousands of images, and yet he picked this *one*, pairing it with a most interesting (and telling!) word.

Thank you again for your most kind remarks re the poem. If you should ever find out any more about the photograph, I should love to hear about it!

jan
Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-05-02 11:01 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Jan! Hello! :-)

Thank you so much for your reflections on the Ring photo which helped me a lot. I must admit that it was sort of an enigma to me; with the One Ring there it is very ambiguous. Would it be just some ring that cast that shadow, everything would be quite clear. But yes, why use the One Ring in connection to "Love"? When I found it I immediatly was reminded of your fantastic poem "So bright... so beautiful". Frodo *does* have a "love affair" with the Ring, hasn't he? And it seems like a corrupted version of Minne, of courtly love. -- The knightly platonic worship of a Lady was called "Hohe Minne" (High Love), meaning an idealistic concept of love (though with erotic connotations the point was that it never was fulfilled!), then, in the course of time, the term Minne was more and more used in the sexual sense ("Niedere Minne", "Low Love"). Perhaps the photographer also allures to this "degeneration" of the meaning of Minne? In the "affairs" people experience with the One Ring, it seems to me that those experiences echo the corruption of Sauron himself. After all, Sauron *was* a Maia inicially, and his way led from high to low, too, so to speak.

Hm, maybe I'd just e-mail the photographer and ask him what his motivation was?
It really would be interesting to learn whether his choice of jewellery was deliberate.
Mechtild
mechtild at 2007-05-02 12:29 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Eavesdropping, Whiteling, on this fascinating discussion! I'm going to copy and paste your comment to email to Jan, since she won't see it here in the usual way, not being on LJ.
Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-05-02 21:02 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

What? You are eavesdropping in your OWN journal?! o__O
;-)
Seriously, thanks Mechtild, for letting Jan know about my reply.
Btw, I asked the photographer and got his reply by return; I just posted it below, as a reply to Jan.
(Anonymous) at 2007-05-02 14:23 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Hallo, Whiteling! :)

your comments are even more interesting (which proves to me, even more, the value of LJ, of which dear Linda is sometimes not entirely sure). Fascinating if the photographer's intent was not only to show a "love affair" gone wrong (but not consummated, even so), but also the denigration of the word "minne" itself, from a noble sort of love to a low one. The number of times the word is used on the page is also of interest. Seven times, that I can see, on the right hand page. Obsessive, wouldn't you say? And it's interesting that, if this was a "normal" and "high-minded" sort of love, we wouldn't call it "obsessive". We'd think it sweet and romantic and noble. Because it appears to be Ring love, we'd think it (at the least) obsessive and dangerous. Right and wrong, good and evil, with only a few words writ upon a gold band to separate them.....

One of the sad things to me about Sauron (or about the Maia, I guess), was that he was merely the lieutenant of evil. How terribly sad.

What i should really like to know about Frodo is if he thought of Sauron, post-Quest, and what those thoughts were. Being as he was intimate with a very resonant part of Sauron, was he haunted by *more* than the Ring? With his large heart, and his "education" in pity, did he forgive this creature? I have written poems addressing both Sauron's genesis and his own slavery to that which he created, (and even ones that posit that he is present at Frodo's anniversary illnesses, (but really only in Frodo's mind, which isbad enough))but never one that addresses Frodo's post Quest reflections upon the Dark Lord. Not a place I'd thought to go. But.....


Back to the photo:
I hope you do email the artist, and would love to hear what he/she says.

take care and thank you again for your great comments!
jan
Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-05-02 20:57 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

I have written poems addressing both Sauron's genesis and his own slavery to that which he created, (and even ones that posit that he is present at Frodo's anniversary illnesses, (but really only in Frodo's mind, which isbad enough))but never one that addresses Frodo's post Quest reflections upon the Dark Lord. Not a place I'd thought to go. But.....

Wah, you give me shivers down my spine again! You explore the most interesting, fascinating and dark realms, jan. Is there any place I can read with what you emerged?


I hope you do email the artist, and would love to hear what he/she says.
Done. I've asked and he replied (he's an ad writer by profession):

There is no profound reason for the choice of ring.
This one just happened to have the right proportions, the right gauge, that is. Its shadow is well accentuated. I've tried the photo with my wedding ring also, but that one is thinner and gold-coloured. It didn't fit as well as the One Ring's silvery tone.


Tsk, tsk. No conscious ambiguity after all... nonetheless, that photo remains enthralling.
Mechtild
mechtild at 2007-05-02 21:09 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Sorry, I have to butt in. So the choice of the Ring was strictly aesthetic? That is very cool, I think. So many great choices in art (and in a certain film trilogy) that worked wonderfully, touching deep things, seem to have been done with little or no conscious intent. But the results are undeniably strong, as if some muse or God--or the Arts God anyway--had guided the makers.

P.S. I'll send Jan an email that you replied.
Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-05-02 21:24 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

But the results are undeniably strong, as if some muse or God--or the Arts God anyway--had guided the makers.
I agree whole-heartedly. I think Andre Gide was so right in saying: "Art is a collaboration between God and the artist, and the less the artist does the better."

Thanks for informing Jan again!

mechling at 2007-05-02 22:44 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Andre Gide is a great souce of fine quotes, if this is any example!
(Anonymous) at 2007-05-02 22:28 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

dear Whiteling, thank you so much for going to that trouble. My Ringer nature *hoped* that the whole thing was NOT coincidental, but my practical side feared that it was. (however, if, in fact, the artist *owns* the Ring that was used in his picture, then I have to say that I can't agree with him 100% that it was a mere aesthetic choice. That is, he may think that, but it might NOT be so. That Ring is extremely sneaky, as those who court it have cause to know).

In regards to the poetry:

(this first one is not really poetry, though it has lyrical elements. It is, basically, the story of the Ring, as told through the eyes of each member of the Fellowship (plus one added member, who I believed deserved a memorium as such). I have tried to make it a logical progression, in terms of both time-span as well as who is telling each chapter:

a link:

http://lotrscrapbook.bookloaf.net/stories/01/januwine_fellowship.html

the anniversary illness:

http://lotrscrapbook.bookloaf.net/poetry/poems/jan/januwine_anniversary2.html

(Frodo speaks first, { } indicates the voice of Sauron)

the true slave of/to the Ring:

http://lotrscrapbook.bookloaf.net/poetry/poems/jan/januwine_orphan.html

Someday I shall get 'round to writing some post-Quest reflections of Frodo on Sauron. How could he NOT have had them? Only a person of little intellect and small spirit could have simply bounced back into their old life with never a thought to the being responsible for so much of their pain (and, when he could admit to it, so much that he desired, with a pleasured sort of pain) Frodo was neither of those things. I should think he would pity that angel-who-was-no-more. After all, even though Frodo "failed", his failure was still much less than Sauron's. Frodo's *will* gave out, not his moral compass.

jan

Whiteling
whiteling at 2007-05-03 21:28 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Thanks so much, dear Jan, for the links to your poetry. Will indulge myself in them on the weekend when I have more time and a clear head.

Someday I shall get 'round to writing some post-Quest reflections of Frodo on Sauron.
That's an exciting prospect. I'm looking very much forward to what Frodo's thoughts will be. He looked so deep into the mind of Sauron the Ex-Angel, and surely there was a kind of "understanding" and in the end possibly pity, yes.
(Anonymous) at 2007-05-04 07:04 (UTC) (Link)

Re: the Ring's the thing (in which we catch the conscience of the halfling)

Dear Whiteling, I will look forward to your comments, should you have any and/orfeel like sharing them.

I don't anticipate writing these pieces soon (too very little time (I'm at work, still, and it has just turned midnight, so, as you see.....)), but sometime I will get 'round to them. The question will be, then: will I be writing them for myself, or will LOTR have been resurrected again (or better still, *never* have become quiescent, and in need of resurrection).

(lest you think I've been slaving here for fifteen hours +, Mech, I went to a movie in between times and am now back here for a moment)

j
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