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NF-Lee's Gildor and Frodo

Nan Gagnon's "Reunion", plus Jan-u-wine's "Across So Wide a Sea"....

Posted on 2006.12.02 at 06:10


pearlette at 2006-12-07 10:05 (UTC) (Link)
He wouldn't want to put himself forward, but always defer to Mr. Frodo, urging him to take the lead. I think assuming his place as a good master, just as he had been a good servant, is part of what Frodo's leaving allowed Sam to be.

Absolutely. "You are my heir, Sam" - the life that Frodo should have had in the Shire (including a wife and children, waaah) he bequeathes to Sam. Deliberately. He knows that by leaving, Sam can step out of his shadow. That's not Frodo's prime motivation for leaving, of course, but it's a positive spin-off.

Cuz Frodo Baggins rocks. *heart* *heart* *heart*

However, I do think that however "one and whole" Sam was in Frodo's absence, he never lost his underlying longing to sail - symbolized in his hearing the call of the Sea - and be with the person with whom he'd shared the most important era of his life. Sam may have been given the task of leadership in the Fourth Age, but his heart belonged to the Third and its leaders, most especially the Ring-bearer. By the way, I read your story and thought you lifted that theme up very well - Sam's continued Sea longing, in spite of his real happiness in M-E with his family. One can have more than one happiness in life, and more than one love, but usually one loyalty prevails.

The human condition is complicated. :) And even in our most intense happiness there can be an element of bittersweetness, loss, yearning ... a a minor chord playing. We are creatures made for immortality who are trapped in time. CS Lewis puts this sort of thing far better than I do. :)

Tolkien intimates very strongly at the end of LOTR and in other parts of his writing, that the sound of the Sea will haunt Sam for the rest of his life. He won't forget the promise that Frodo made him. And he won't hear the Sea all the time ... a rich, happy, fruitful life awaits him. But he will hear it now and then. And he won't forget.

I have always thought of Frodo's primary archetype as the pilgrim; fandom and further reading has helped me see Sam joining him in that state, until they are pilgrims together in the end, on the road, sojourners, going they know not where -- but with hope.

Oh, that's lovely. :) Yes, I see Frodo as a pilgrim. Definitely. And so was Sam.

You have thoroughly, continually enriched my posts here by bringing your wit, taste, insight and deep feelings to your comments.

Well, you will keep writing these awesome posts and posting up beautiful artwork. ;)

Also, I wanted to add that your story ("Beyond the Sunset") struck me as one that fulfills a deep desire in Frodo fans to see their hero really truly healed on Tol Eressea; and that Sam, too, finds real wholeness across the Sea. It is a fic that portrays them both deeply happy and content, which I very much appreciate.

Thank you ... and yes, what can I say? I like to see our hobbit-lads happy. :) There's enough heartbreak in their stories back in Middle-earth, the mortal lands. :(

Mind you, The Silmarillion is even worse ...!
mechtild at 2006-12-07 13:51 (UTC) (Link)
We are creatures made for immortality who are trapped in time.


Ah, the Sil. If I ever finish with Frodo fic, I next would like to read Sil fics. I love reading back tales from HoME drafts, and the fuller treatments of Sil stories in JRRT's Unfinished Tales. I am sure there must be a lot of good Sil-based fic out there. And I'll bet most of it seethes with the blood, sex, guilt, and angst that the histories related in the Sil are full of, along with all the transcendant, magical parts. What a shame JRRT never had the time and energy to flesh it out the way he did LotR. I guess I'll have to read it in heaven if I get there.
pearlette at 2006-12-07 15:12 (UTC) (Link)
The Silmarillion is too sad for heaven ... :) Although it's very biblical in its narrative style and it does contain some of the most beautiful and sublime writing I've ever read in my life. Tolkien simply surpasses himself in his magnum opus, the work of his heart. He has this way of painting vistas in my mind. In fact, The Silmarillion reminds me of a Turner painting ... vast, glorious, mysterious, transcendant, with flashes and glimmers of light flickering on the horizon, or nearby in pools of silver.

I've read Sil four times and each time it does my head in. I can never keep track of who is who or of what happened when ... all the battles blur into one. This is why I don't have the energy for Silmarillion fanfic, although I'm sure it's extremely good stuff. I have a hard enough time with the source material. Perhaps the fanfic would help me make more sense of it. :p

But actually, I think I'll just read Sil again ... at some point.

And I love Unfinished Tales!
mechtild at 2006-12-07 20:48 (UTC) (Link)
So, getting in the Sil mood, ey?

The Silmarillion reminds me of a Turner painting ... vast, glorious, mysterious, transcendant, with flashes and glimmers of light flickering on the horizon, or nearby in pools of silver.

Good, Pearl, that. It is what you say, epic, nay, biblical in diction and feel. But it was reading the fuller drafts and the Unifinished Tales stories that made it really live for me in my imagination. Those pulled me in and involved me in stories of the characters more than the Sil itself did. When I read the Silmarillion again, I got far more out of it because so much backstory was in my mind before I started out.

I can never keep track of who is who or of what happened when ... all the battles blur into one.

This was a big obstacle for me which I addressed intentionally, unable to stand constantly looking up names in the Companion and poring over the maps. I made a chart and a time-table, and my own maps. All that stuff was spread about in the texts, of course, but it was making the charts and maps myself that helped me remember. I kept them by me whenever I was reading -- as well as the chart of the types of Elves and houses of Men etc. It made the story exponentially more interesting to me, knowing who was whom and where they were supposed to be. I know few would want to do that, but I found it well worth it.
pearlette at 2006-12-07 22:52 (UTC) (Link)
Oh wow, what an undertaking! :) What a fab thing to do! :)

I could certainly use similar charts, timetables and genealogies ... :)
mechtild at 2006-12-08 00:38 (UTC) (Link)
Your icon SLAYS me! Yes, they are a big help to me. Like having a royal family tree out on the coffee table when I am watching Shakespeare or historical costume dramas from BBC.

Pearl, I see that you posted a tantalizing-looking entry on the setting for the Grey Havens. I am writing recs for the het challenge at Lotr_fic_recs at the moment, but I hope to read it with greater attention later tonight. (I got a heads-up from our most beloved guardian of Frodo het, Ariel, that the challenge had been up for a few days and NO ONE had recced anything. Disgraceful! We are working to remedy that. *grin*)
pearlette at 2006-12-08 16:49 (UTC) (Link)
*shows icon again* :p

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