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NF-Lee's Gildor and Frodo

Gorgoroth Part I ~ EE scenes, plus jan-u-wine's 'There is Light Which Does Not Fail'.

Posted on 2006.08.21 at 13:52

Comments:


Mona
lame_pegasus at 2006-08-22 07:54 (UTC) (Link)
Thank you for those marvelous screencaps, Mechtild! And about the "hand-holding and touching"-issue... you see I think Tolkien's source is very "innocent" when it comes to matters of eros or sexuality (asude from Gríma, perhaps, whose desire for Éowyn is thratening even in the shortness it is mentioned).

Sadly enough the fact that this fandom is rather "sexualized" (more Slash than Het I guess) often keeps people from seeing thing as they were originally meant. I thought of your (stunningly beautiful and flattering *blows a kiss*) MEFA-review for Breath of Winter. You said something in that direction when you wrote about the scene under the tree (Frodo stripping himself and the snow-soaked hobbit-children) - and thank you for the "Good Shepherd"-image! I didn't think of it when I wrote it, but it makes perfect sense.

And of course this is a scene of perfect innocence - as the last one in the tale when Merry, Pippin and Sam get rid of their clothes in the cold October night to warm their wounded cousin. You said something about "reading this with a wink" - of course many readers would, but the intention I had was to show a bone-deep, loving connection without any sexual hint.

There are many different sorts of love, and this is IMHO what Tolkien meant - same as in all those intense, emotional moments between Frodo and Sam. Tolkien himself complained more than once about the fact that showing our emotions physically is considered as a strange and "wrong" thing in modern society; he himself hadn't no such restraints... at least when it came to family and close friends.
pearlette
pearlette at 2006-08-22 11:06 (UTC) (Link)
*agrees with Mona*

There is an innocence in LOTR about sexuality, I agree. The story works pretty well without sex! I also agree that Grima's hits on Eowyn may be only briefly alluded to, but they pack a punch.

Sadly enough the fact that this fandom is rather "sexualized" (more Slash than Het I guess) often keeps people from seeing thing as they were originally meant.

*nods vigorously*

I have no objection to Fanon whatsoever - I enjoy it enormously and have contributed plenty to Fanon myself - but I've never allowed it to obscure canon.

Indeed, rather like the books and the movies, I can keep Canon and Fanon separate, and that's fine. :)

Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-08-22 12:49 (UTC) (Link)
Pearl, I quoted from you to answer Mona (see below).

If our fandom is sexualized, it says more about us than about Tolkien. For people in my era, it's difficult to recover an outlook in which a fully realised sexuality wasn't considered a good, perhaps the highest good. This is not to say people in other eras didn't enjoy sex, perhaps as much or more than us, but enjoying sex wasn't set up as such a primary goal or prize in life, towards which any and every person must strive -- and attain -- or be thought odd or pitiable.
pearlette
pearlette at 2006-08-22 20:22 (UTC) (Link)
... enjoying sex wasn't set up as such a primary goal or prize in life, towards which any and every person must strive -- and attain -- or be thought odd or pitiable.

Preach it, sister!!!

Frodo agrees. That's why he's undressing so enthusiastically in this icon. :p

No, really. Seriously. You're right.

LOTR fandom is very sexual. Nothing particularly shocking about that - and compared to some of the Harry Potter fandom, it is positively tame. I think that fandom is very much about us, our projections onto these characters, the playing out of our desires and fantasies ...

Well, it has been for me, anyway, and I won't pretend otherwise.

I just want Frodo to be happy. :)
Hobbity forever
periantari at 2007-08-24 05:12 (UTC) (Link)
your icon is Love. ♥
Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-08-22 12:45 (UTC) (Link)
Pearl wrote below:


I have no objection to Fanon whatsoever - I enjoy it enormously and have contributed plenty to Fanon myself - but I've never allowed it to obscure canon.


I think this is where I am at. Mews said something similar above, about being "schizophrenic", which I asked her to clarify, about appreciating both the canon work and the fanfic which springs from it. It's possible to love them both, but keep them distinguished. Heck, I obviously love my sexualized Frodo, but I know he's not what Tolkien wrote.

When I reviewed your story, I had meant that had you been a writer who specialized in slash relationships between Frodo and his young cousins, I would have read your snow scene "with a wink." But, because I knew you weren't, I was able to read the scene for its unsexualized, true sense.
pearlette
pearlette at 2006-08-22 20:14 (UTC) (Link)
Heck, I obviously love my sexualized Frodo, but I know he's not what Tolkien wrote.

Heh, I love him too! He's so adorable and so HOT HOT HOT!!! How I would love to be Rosamunda! *cackle*

He's a very happy spin-off from Book Frodo. :)

Who shows not the slightest interest in sex whatsoever :D, beyond his reaction to Goldberry, which is more like a lovestruck schoolboy. Bless!

Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-08-22 20:32 (UTC) (Link)
I kind of liked Alternative Frodo swimming around with Undine.... ;)
pearlette
pearlette at 2006-08-22 23:33 (UTC) (Link)
And that's the first time I've seen Frodo pull a Come Hither look at the Grey Havens. :p

He's smilng as if to say: "You coming with me?"

You betcha, baby.

PS. Thank you for your kind comments on the Undine story. I did enjoy writing that!
Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-08-23 00:06 (UTC) (Link)
Hey, one day I want to post the "Frodo and the Siren" manip (the Leighton painting that spurred you and Maeglian on) on LJ. Can I post an excerpt from the Undine story? I know you wouldn't care if I mentioned it or linked it. (Right...?)

P.S. I posted Pt. II of this series a couple of hours ago. Jan-u-wine wrote a super, gritty, kills-my-heart-but-I-love-it poem that inspired me to re-visit this scene; it's posted in that entry.

Yeah, that's a pretty "come hither" look. I thought of it as snarky. Speaking of the End (of RotK).... When I post the screencaps for the desk scene (Frodo writing in the Red Book), I have been planning to do a mention/excerpt/plug for Star of the Sea. I think I asked you about that ages ago and you said it was O.K.
pearlette
pearlette at 2006-08-23 10:33 (UTC) (Link)
Hey, one day I want to post the "Frodo and the Siren" manip (the Leighton painting that spurred you and Maeglian on) on LJ. Can I post an excerpt from the Undine story? I know you wouldn't care if I mentioned it or linked it. (Right...?)

I'd be DELIGHTED! *bounces*

Yeah, that's a pretty "come hither" look. I thought of it as snarky. Speaking of the End (of RotK).... When I post the screencaps for the desk scene (Frodo writing in the Red Book), I have been planning to do a mention/excerpt/plug for Star of the Sea. I think I asked you about that ages ago and you said it was O.K.

Oooh yes, I would be very pleased if you did that. :):):):):)

(Grey Havens snark! LOL! But who's he snarking at, we wonders? :p)
Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-08-23 19:52 (UTC) (Link)
Thanks, Pearl. I'll hold you to it. :) I don't know when it would be, but now it's in the "creative hopper."
Hobbity forever
periantari at 2007-08-24 03:50 (UTC) (Link)
I agree with all that you said, Mona-- especially about Tolkien being in a more "innocent" seeming time in which physicality doesn't mean sexuality... i think that's very important and in my fandom, i'm pretty innocent with it too. =) I prefer het rather than slash too in reading fanfic...
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