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NF-Lee's Gildor and Frodo

Fearturing Bandwench's Frodo manip ~ "Frodo: Study in Blue" (Adult)....

Posted on 2006.06.25 at 12:41

Comments:


Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-06-26 05:01 (UTC) (Link)
(Cont'd...)

I sound like I'm being the champion of Filthy EW Manips, Taerie, and I really am not. I'm just saying that I don't see the use of EW's image in manips or fanfics -- even as Frodo -- as that black-and-white a thing.

As a film actor, a star to some degree, he's a public person who makes it on the devotion of his fans; in a sense, he belongs to them (in a way you NEVER belonged to that photographer, as a private person). I'm sure he knows fans are fooling around with his pictures and his persona, much in the same way naughty children might get out their dolls and let them stand in for their favourite actors or boys they like, then giggle and swoon while they have the dolls do interesting amorous activities together.

I don't think EW probably hears about fans making him into Long Dong Silver (or a pharoah's concubine or a rent boy or the lover of half of Middle-earth), and thinks of it as willful malice, disregard or character assasination. He probably saves his anger and irritation for things like professional photographers who chase celebrities into toilets to catch them with their pants down, so they can sell the images to tabloids or embarrass them publicly on television reality shows. I think he probably thinks it's sort of silly, but that it is meant in a positive way towards him, however silly or even embarrassing.

Maybe I sound defensive because I, too, feel indicted, having used the image of film Frodo to make my manips and to write my own hot fanfic. If it hadn't been for film Frodo, I wouldn't be writing at all.

Isn't that using EW's image without his consent? Who's to say EW'd be happy with the way I have used his face?

And, if I feel a little bit indicted for using film-Frodo's image when I write or manip, since he functions as my Eros and Muse, I feel a lot more indicted for using Tolkien's Frodo for my purposes. EW might indulge my creative use of his face and performance, but I think Tolkien would be grieved to see what I have done. But that hasn't stopped me, has it? So, when I start talking about not respecting the images created by or belonging to others, I only have to look in my mirror.

Oh, it's late and I'm being boring. But thanks for listening, Taerie!
taerie
taerie at 2006-06-26 07:48 (UTC) (Link)
Heck no.. you aren't being boring! I like this kind of gentle debate. If anybody's bored they don't have to read it.
I told the story just to illustrate my own reaction to that sort of thing and to explain my probably extremist dislike of it. I agree that EW has WAY worse concerns and annoyances than the rudeness of people who treat him impolitely by using his image to make porno. That is probably not even a blip on his radar screen of annoying.
I think you might be right that he himself, if pinned down on his opinion of manufactured porno of his face, would probably laugh it off like the soccer player did the pic. One reason is that from the little I have been paying attention.. it seems to me that, being young and hungry for acceptance, he tries to be the good sport a bit too hard and puts up with stuff that he probably shouldn't.. and another is that like the soccer player.. a guy sort of has to act the stud and the good sport and laugh off nasty and embarrassing things. It's one of those cultural pressures that men get stuck with.. whereas I was, as a woman, actually expected to get angry over it. (Come to think of it.. I did not react at all, publicly.. I just shrugged even though I was angry. I instantly felt to do anything else would just give the perpetrator satisfaction.. And maybe there is some sort of 'pronking' instinctive response. An antelope running with a herd will do showy leaps (pronking) if a lion is looking.. so the lion will think he is strong and not bother with him.. and choose another victim.)
(The people doing close-ups of the players accidental exposure are more like hyenas than lions in my opinion but that is neither here nor there.)
I feel, Mechtild, that you would have to be overly introspective to feel indicted for using film-Frodo's image for what you do.. but I can't condemn you for that.. I do the same sort of soul searching, self questioning thing.. valid or not. What you say is very true about film actors knowingly lending their images for such things. I also know (having hung out in the past around celebrities) that they usually feel that there is no such thing as BAD attention.. They love all attention.. or they had better if they choose that profession.. (not that you could say that EW actually chose his more than it happened to him.) So you are probably also right about him even LIKING it as alien as that seems to my own mental thought processes.
To me it is still a black and white thing though.. cause apart from wether or not he likes it.. it's still rude.. still abusive. To me, common courtesy demands that I not make publicly even just POSSIBLY embarrassing images of a real person. (EW) At least till he SAYS it's okay.) Frodo.. even film Frodo is a far more grey area as is worrying about wether a dead author would fret over what you do with his character for fun. I care a lot about Frodo and his imaginary feelings so I wouldn't do it but I can't say it's wrong to do it.. and indeed I enjoy it sometimes when it is personally entertaining for other people to do it.. but there is always a little feeling of guilt that goes with it that is silly cause he isn't real.
(Okay.. so I'm weird.. we knew that already! ;-)
Mechtild
mechtild at 2006-06-26 14:20 (UTC) (Link)
Taerie, you've highlighted some great points, again, especially about matters of taste and consent, and about the pressure to act like a good sport, even when one doesn't feel like it.

I have to go do things, then go to work, but I have heard from the artist reports of actual remarks of EW's, stating clearly that he really doesn't mind his image being used by fans for their naughty fun. If I find a quote I'll post it.
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