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smile - Golden cart Frodo

MEFA nominations final: jan-u-wine a nominee

Posted on 2010.06.16 at 22:56

Comments:


antane at 2010-07-11 23:43 (UTC) (Link)
Yes, we must be sympathetic for the crosses others must bear, some of them so terrible. "There but for the grace of God go I" as St. Philip Neri said and which Frodo understands instinctively about himself and Gollum. This is such a great tale that so much can be drawn from.

I've heard of "The Little Prince" of course but have not read or seen it.

It would be nice if everyone could follow Luke's advice to his father, "Let go of your hate" or Frodo's "There must be no killing" but alas, that is not always possible in this fallen world where we have an Enemy out to destroy us with his terrible malice and has so many slaves that he whips up into a frenzy against those who would oppose him. Theoden wonders what can be done against such reckless hate and then does what must be done - oppose it and struggle to defeat it. What a world it would be if we could find our way to true peace, but at times war is necessary, tragic as it is to all of us.

May we indeed acquit ourselves well for we are all on a battlefield that we cannot leave until death takes us from it and the war is for our souls which is another one of the great lessons of the Red Book. Hopefully it won't be as intense as it was for Frodo on Amon Hen, but we are in the same battle he was continually engaged in. It was that battle that was the important one, not the ones out in the physical field, which Aragorn is saying when Eomer wonders why he doesn't go into Minas Tirith as conquering king and Aragorn says the final battle hadn't been won yet. So Frodo is a non-combatant in a physical fight but very much one in the spiritual one as we all must be and that's what I get myself from him as one of the central heroes. We should all pray we 'escape' as Boromir did and die in a state of grace as he did.

Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
jan_u_wine
jan_u_wine at 2010-07-12 13:08 (UTC) (Link)
Dear Antane.....really, my opinion in regards to war doesn't matter to any save myself. We all must look at the world we live in and come to our conclusions, and follow our moral roads, being responsible for our choices, in the end before God. My choice and belief is mine, evolved after much heart-searching. I respect your choice, too, as well as the jourey that you made to make it.

There is a huge and practical differece between what occurs in our minds and what happens in the real world. The words we speak, the things we say (for example, "there must be no killing" or "I love you") are easy for our tongues to form. The difficult part lies in proving the truth of them by our actions. Inevitably, it seems, that test comes. For myself, I hope to be worthy of my personal beliefs. I hope to 'pass the test' and willingly give up whatever is required in order to hold to what I perceive as right.
antane at 2010-07-13 01:53 (UTC) (Link)
Love that last paragraph for indeed words must be more than words at times for them to have the best effect. They can be devastating or healing or the former followed by the latter. Frodo and Sam never told each other "I love you" but proved it over and over by their actions and Frodo proved that he loved all of Middle-earth. The tragedy of Smeagol-Gollum on the Stairs under Sam's withering words is a heartbreak for S-G was someone who was so fragily and tentatively coming back to the light yet had not the strength of will to withstand the hatred and anger of Sam. Smeagol died right then and there. I hope I will be worthy also and pass my own tests in the future for I know I have failed quite a number of them already, yet we must always pick ourselves up and enter into battle once more.

Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
jan_u_wine
jan_u_wine at 2010-07-14 12:54 (UTC) (Link)
Yes, I should think that Frodo and Sam had no need of saying "I love you" (of course, Sam did say it once, although Frodo couldn't hear). But their actions were demonstrative of love; in Frodo's case, surely agape-style love.

Really, do you think that Sam's behavior towards Gollum killed Smeagol, that he might otherwise have been saved? That's interesting.

I think that the grand thing about making mistakes is that we can choose to learn from them and that, in the Christian belief system, God forgives these errors as long as they are not wilful. Not that every time I make a mistake I jump up and down for joy, or anything. But I am glad to have learned something new, to be refined and disciplined and brought nearer to what i should be, with a hope to being strong enough to take the proper path the next time.

well, i must run. take care

jan
antane at 2010-07-14 22:40 (UTC) (Link)
That's why I wasn't counting Sam's I love you. :)

But yes, he did have a lot to do with Smeagol's death (though nothing with Gollum's) but not everything. It was really Smeagol who made the final decision, or had it made for him, since even though he had recovered from the terrible blow at the Forbidden Pool when he thought himself betrayed, he chose not to continue his journey toward the light anymore after the Stairs. Tolkien has some interesting comments about this in one of his letters that I read recently that if Smeagol had recovered from Sam's words and chosen to continue in his love for Frodo which would have strengthened daily, it still would not have been enough to overcome the Ring. Tolkien speculated however that it may have been enough to have Smeagol voluntarily sacrifice himself by leaping into the Fire with the Ring to save Frodo. In the real story, in the end it was Smeagol's choice or nonchoice (like Frodo at the Fire claiming the Ring was a nonchoice) that determined his death and the going forward to betrayal to Shelob. But think of the great good that came out of that betrayal - even though Sam had to endure the torment of his beloved's apparent death, there was no other way he would taken the Ring himself which enabled him to have a window into the agony of both his master and Smeagol which enabled his pity for Gollum at the precise moment it was needed which enabled Frodo's salvation at the Fire and saved all of Middle-earth. If the pity of Bilbo ruled the fate of many, it was Sam's pity that ruled the fate of all. I love all this is so interconnected and dependent on our free will choices for good or evil and how God uses them all.

Well it's been swell chatting with you!

Namarie, God bless, Antane :)
jan_u_wine
jan_u_wine at 2010-07-15 12:42 (UTC) (Link)
JRR really did hit upon the only scenario that really worked, in terms of bringing all the disparate ends of the story together.

it's been nice talking with you, as well.

take care!

jan
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