?

Log in

No account? Create an account
January 2018   01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
NF-Lee's Gildor and Frodo

When RPS is the better secondary world in which to write...

Posted on 2005.07.17 at 22:03
Tags: , , ,
Well, because all the windows of Europe and the U.S. have been dark as fans around the world have been devouring Harry Potter #6, I have been clicking the buttons of "Friends" ... and then of the Friends of the Friends ... then of their Friends ....

I ended up in a site hosting RPS fics starring LotR actors. And what do you know? I read an EW-OB one that was pretty good, as hot fics go! I didn't believe it at all, since I think both actors are straight. I especially doubted it after having seen EW's lack-lustre ("lack-lust"?) on-screen love-making in All I Want (but I grant that he was playing a role, and, perhaps, he actually is a lot more capable than those scenes indicate).

(This journal entry contains explicit language.)

Anyway, having read this EW-OB story, I wanted to test an idea .... A lot of what goes on in explicit LotR fanfic (it seems to me, now) is massively better suited to the secondary world in which it really belongs -- that is, in Real Person erotica, slash or het.

What I mean is, a lot of what goes on in LotR erotic fan fiction is really attuned to relationships and characters who inhabit the present-day world, or nearly. The mores are present-day; the characters are present-day; the language, especially, is present-day. Why not just take all this anachronistic erotica and put it where it really belongs? In the late-20th; 21st century?

One site that I browsed offered an extremely helpful new way of categorizing highly-rated fan-fics. I will copy it out. I lifted it off a site I found while browsing, called, "Elijah het".

Here is what I found notable, stated in what was the announcement of the site's mod, about fanfic ratings:

_________________________________________________

Here is the new system, based on a post from aina_baggins.

U (Universal) - (Contains all the criteria below to use this rating)

* Nothing that will offend any audience

* No violent content

* No sexual content beyond a kiss on the mouth

* Only mild emotional and/or physical anguish

* No torment without comfort/resolution

* No character death

M - Mature (Contains ONE OR MORE of the below criteria to obtain rating)

* Mild violence

* Mild sexual references - inclusive of heavy kissing and petting.

* Emotional and/or physical anguish

* Character death

A - Adult (Contains ONE OR MORE of the below criteria to obtain rating)

ADULT RATED FICS MUST BE FRIENDS LOCKED

* Violence

* Sex scene(s)

* Severe emotional and/or physical anguish

* Traumatic character death

* Suggested rape/non consensual situations

E - Explicit (Contains ONE OR MORE of the below criteria to obtain rating)

EXPLICIT RATED FICS MUST BE FRIENDS LOCKED

* Extreme violence

* Explicit sex scene(s)

* Rape/non consensual situations


To translate further for those of you who post here often...

U - Universal is basically equivalent to G/PG. There would be kissing, but no one would be opening their mouths. It would be very hearts and flowers and sweet and innocent. I think I've seen one or two stories posted here that fit this category, out of the more than 150 posted.

M - Mature would be a bit more like PG 13. There would be some hot and heavy making out, maybe some touching, but everyone would keep their clothes on. This might be similar to those high school makeout sessions we all had, when you'd dry hump each other but you were too scared to put your hand down his pants. LOL

A - Adult Here's a rating I expect to see quite often. Almost all the fics posted here should be rated Adult because almost every fic posted here has a sex scene. By sex scene, I mean any scene where someone has an orgasm. It doesn't necessarily mean penetration. It could be from oral, or a handjob, or phone sex, or whatever your crazed imaginations come up with. If someone has an orgasm, it's a sex scene. OK? And that means an Adult rating, and that means friends locking. The equivalent to this on the MPAA scale is R.

E - Explicit The difference between Adult and Explicit would be a pretty fine line, in my opinion. I'd say the devil is in the details. In an Adult fic, you might read about two characters having sex but maybe it wouldn't describe every little sensation or detail or wax rhapsodic about the veins in someone's organ. But in Explicit, you'd find out about those veins, and about the taste and the consistency of their bodily fluids.

Basically, an Adult fic might use the word "arousal" to describe a penis. But an Explicit fic would say "cock". An Adult fic might fade to black on our two protagonists as they lie down on their silk sheets, but an Explicit fic would describe how those sheets came to be stained with baby oil.

Explicit fics should always be friends locked in this community.

I hope this has helped. I do expect you all to use this rating in order to avoid any MPAA related woes.

Thanks!!!!!!!

Your friendly moderator...


________________________________________________________


This was an extremely helpful tweaking of the rating system, I thought. Under the old system, one author could describe Frodo jerking himself off with almost minute anatomical detail, step-by-step, using non-Tolkien expressions like "cock" and "balls", yet the story might be rated "R". Another author would write a "romantic" interlude, which showed her characters having some sort of interactive sex -- but described with typically euphemistic language -- and the story would be rated "NC-17".

I thought this moderator's comments were right on the money. It's not what the characters do, but how it's described. If Frodo "delved his rigid shaft (or, hardened arousal) into her silken folds/the innermost recesses of his body", it's classified as "Adult" in this rating system. But, if Frodo, "drove his rampant cock into her dripping cunt/his tight ass", it's rated higher, as "Explicit".

I see it more as a difference in "eras" of erotica. If the story is supposed to tell the tale of lovers in an older time, euphemisms* strike the right chord for me; if it's supposed to tell the tale of lovers in more recent times, the franker language can be more appropriate. In any case, I think these alternate categories offer a very helpful distinction for readers of erotic/romantic fan fictions, distinguishing between levels of NC-17.

* Note: Actually, the examples of both "Adult" and "Explicit" writing use euphemisms. "Cock", "balls" and "slit" (or "cunt") are merely more contemporary, no-nonesense euphemisms than ones like, "arousal", "fruit" or "folds". After all, if writers of erotica used no euphemisms at all, we would be reading words like, "penis," "scrotum" and "vagina." I don't recall ever having done so.

Note on note: I stand corrected on what I thought was the comparative modernity of "cock" and "balls" - see entry below, having read excerpt from Teasel's LJ.

~ Mecthild

Comments:


Ann
just_ann_now at 2005-07-18 11:27 (UTC) (Link)
*wipes eyes from laughing*

Oh, those descriptions are just too much! Though I'm unsure where something like my fic Fealty would fit in - not particularly graphic, but certainly all kinds of hanky panky of a slashy nature very strongly implied - it is P with very little if any P, after all.

And though I applaud that mod's determination to protect the young and innocent, I'm sorry to see the requirement that fics at a certain level be f-locked. One of the very great delights of LiveJournal (as I'm sure you discovered this weekend) lies in wandering freely through the winding paths of friends-of-friends-of-friend's lists. I've discovered some amazing authors, some quite interesting people, some delightfully funny or thought-provoking or erotic posts. What am I missing? How much more would I miss if everything were f-locked?

I've found it's so much fun, too, and so heartwarming to come across a story someone has posted, say, two years ago, and send them a gushing encouraging comment. Who wouldn't want to get something like that, totally out of the blue?

I can certainly see the purpose of locking posts, though I'm more likely to lock something that would have discussions of my personal life, workplace woes, etc, than my fics. And though I've tried using a filter to protect those on my flist who don't care to read certain of my stories, I must not be doing that correctly, because everything is still showing up. So instead I just put a firm warning right up there in the heading.

I did have a moment's pause last week when my long-lost nephew (or maybe I am the one who is long-lost,since he's lived where he's always been, and I'm the one who doesn't call or visit) showed up commenting in my LJ. Ohno! Now my whole family will know I spend every free waking moment reading or writing or talking about LOTR porn! But then I decided, what the hell!
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-18 13:11 (UTC) (Link)
Hmmmm, Ann. I never thought about how people I know in real life could read all my stuff. Uh - oh. But almost no one in RL knows my user name. Only my immediate family.

I didn't even pay attention to the part that said the stories in the site above were f-locked. Is that a common thing, in your experience? I can't see the point of doing that in fictional-person fan fiction. But this site is for Real Person erotica. Some of authors of these stories might star themselves as their character's lovers. In that case, I can see how they might want to greatly restrict who reads what are essentially their personal fantasies, explicitly depicted.

Ann, you wrote,

Oh, those descriptions are just too much! Though I'm unsure where something like my fic Fealty would fit in - not particularly graphic, but certainly all kinds of hanky panky of a slashy nature very strongly implied - it is P with very little if any P, after all.

What's "P" stand for? "Prurient"? "Penile"? "Pretty hot"?

~ Mechtild
Ann
just_ann_now at 2005-07-18 13:24 (UTC) (Link)
What's "P" stand for? "Prurient"? "Penile"? "Pretty hot"?
*giggles* That would be the standard fanfic descriptor for smut, PWP or Porn Without Plot (or, occasionally, Porn With Plot).

Most of the smut erotica I read (other than your graceful and lovely tale)is slash, so there's not generally the issue of self-insertion in the story. But whoa! I can so imagine that in het-based Real Person Stories. Now that would be creepy, to be reading someone's first-person sexual fantasies. I think I'll definitely stick with slash - less messy and complicated.

If I had had any foresight at all when I was new to LJ, I would have been more imaginative about a username; on the other hand, other than sending out an email (like you did! a great idea!) I don't know how folks would have found me once I left HASA.
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-18 15:02 (UTC) (Link)
That would be the standard fanfic descriptor for smut, PWP or Porn Without Plot (or, occasionally, Porn With Plot).


Ha! That's pretty funny, Ann.

I knew all about "PWP," but I had not heard it called just, "P." Yes, it might be squicky reading someone's first-person naughty musings. Others might like it. Look how popular the "tell-all" TV shows are.

Ann, I wanted to point out an addendum I made to my post, above. It just occurred to me, as I was re-reading it:

* Actually, the examples of both "Adult" and "Explicit" writing use euphemisms. "Cock", "balls" and "slit" (or "cunt") are merely more contemporary, no-nonesense euphemisms than ones like, "arousal", "fruit" and "folds". After all, if writers of erotica used no euphemisms at all, we would be reading words like, "penis," "scrotum" and "vagina." I don't recall ever having done so.

~ Mechtild


Ann
just_ann_now at 2005-07-18 15:08 (UTC) (Link)
Oh, euphemisms are good! I like euphemisms!

I was reading the most gorgeous piece of smut recently,Faramir and Boromir with a magnificent tattoo, and in the midst of all this perfect lusciousness came something about ramming against his prostate... Smack! Way to get me right out of the mood, why don'tcha? Aaargh.
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-18 15:49 (UTC) (Link)
Ann, you wrote:

"I was reading the most gorgeous piece of smut recently,Faramir and Boromir with a magnificent tattoo, and in the midst of all this perfect lusciousness came something about ramming against his prostate... Smack! Way to get me right out of the mood, why don'tcha? Aaargh."

HAW HAW HAW. Maybe he was just being concerned -- checking for congential anomolies. *snort*
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-18 16:11 (UTC) (Link)
Hi, White Gull! You wrote,

I hardly read fanfic at all, except for the few stories I scan that seem not too sad, and well written.

Well, I have barely scratched the surface of fanfic land, and have much still to read.

As for RPF, now that I have read one, I am surprised to hear myself say that I was less offended by that story in which celebrities did things they probably never did, than by ones about favourite fictional characters doing similar things.

After all, I don't know these actors at all, and I am sure the writers of RPF don't know them at all, either. So, of course, whatever RPF authors put in their stories has to be invented, almost from scratch. And, since they don't know these people in any intimate way, they are free to make up whatever they want about them. Who is going to take them to task for "not being canon"? Canon according to what? According to fan gossip sites?

On the other hand, readers are able to know Tolkien's characters rather intimately; Tolkien wrote the story so that his readers could do just that. The reader knows more about Frodo than Sam does! Therefore, when I read a story that plays fast and loose with Tolkien's characters (unless it is a spoof), I find I am more, not less taken aback by those characters being portrayed in ways that I think distort or diminish them. That is because the fanfiction author is able to know them. These characters are not the strangers that celebrities are, essentially.

I am not talking about whether or not it is disrespectful to use the personas celebrities for writing erotic fan fictions. That is another issue.

~ Mechtild
(Deleted comment)
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 05:30 (UTC) (Link)

More on RPF's

White Gull, I probably agree with you. I merely was speaking out of my feelings: I love the character Frodo far more than I do EW or OB, even though they are real people and he is not. That is all I can think of to explain to myself why I should be more affronted reading a [non-spoof] story in which Frodo is portrayed behaving in a radically OOC way that diminishes him (in my opinion), than reading a story about real-life celebrities portrayed behaving in OOC ways that diminish them.

(Also, if EW or OB hated being portrayed in such fics this way, they could always make denials or at least complain about it on Ellen or Leno. Frodo can't do that. Poooooor Fwodooooooo!)

As to how "questionable" RPF is or isn't, I wasn't going to address that since there are people writing and reading it whom I like very much, and I didn't want to sound only negative about it.

Ann, as I kept thinking about the issue tonight, it occurred to me that the reason an RPF site like the one I quoted from (above) would lock its higher-rated stuff might be out of a sense of courtesy or decency towards the actors who are featured in their fics. As you point out, White Gull, these stories say very clearly that they are fiction and not real. They can't (I don't think) be charged with defamation of character or dragged into court on counts of libel or anything like that. People writing RPF's aren't like journalists writing things that they purport to be true but which aren't; they are explicitly, avowedly writing fiction. But, I am sure that RPF fanfic writers (in spite of being willing to put their heroes through whatever they want to imagine in fanfics) do have real affection for their heroes. Fic writers must at least consider that the actors they love might not like being used in this way; especially, that they might not like the idea that anyone in the world can read these imaginings of their private lives if they feel like it. RPF writers would realise this, I think, that the actors they love would appreciate their making every effort to keep this entertainment amongst themselves. So the lock is, after all, a good thing.

~ Mechtild
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 13:09 (UTC) (Link)

More on cock and balls - they're pretty old

I got a PM from a very well-read Tolkien and Frodo fan-friend, linking me to a very helpful piece on usage for sexual parts in Tolkien fan fiction. (May I say from whom?)

Trust all this great stuff to be covered in Teasel's LJ. Here's some of it (I'll give the link to the whole thing below)....


By Teasel, May 6, 2004

A scholarly footnote: how old are balls?

Recently on my friendsfriends list, I've seen writers of Tolkien FP slash worrying about what words they should use to name male genitalia.

Personally I've enjoyed fics that use all kinds of language to accomplish this fearsome task, from the vaguest of references to words that seem strangely shocking to some: "cock" and "balls."

I've heard all kinds of arguments against these words, and some of them may very well make sense. It may be (may be) true, for example, that some characters in LotR would avoid these words because they would seem too vulgar or too lower-class or too slangy for a particular situation. But these kinds of questions might best be resolved within individual fics, because they depend on how the author is portraying her characters and on what's happening to the characters.

But there's one argument against "cock" and "balls" that is simply false: the assertion that the words are modern. They're not. "Balls" in the sense of testicles goes back to at least 1325. "Cock" in the sense of penis goes back to at least 1618.

My sources are the authoritative records of the English language and every word-lover's delight: the Oxford English Dictionary and the Middle English Dictionary. (...)




What I thought was a thoughtful, great response (--because I agreed with it, natch) was posted in the LJ by cara_chapel, (see May 7), who wrote....



Tolkien deliberately used varied and careful choice of English style, dialect, and diction to represent not only Westron but social classes and various other languages.

I think the problem lies in Tolkien's dislike of sexuality/vulgarity. He deliberately edited that sort of thing out of his "good" characters. Now, here's how I see it: A hobbit, being "good," would in Tolkien's lexicon use more elevated euphemistic language and less common or vulgar slang/dialect. But an orc would be more likely to use the slang equivalents of cock/balls/fuck etc. (if Tolkien hadn't refused to permit sexual content more or less even with his bad guys).

Still, based on the patterns of non-sexual language use, the most slangish, common usages went to the orcs. A step above them come the rustic hobbits, so if any hobbit used those terms, I'd say it would be a "bad" hobbit or one of the common hobbits. I'd assign it a level of degrees; level of emotional provocation, audience, and other factors would go into my decision whether a hobbit would use them.



I think she has noted very acurately these nuances in Tolkien's LotR usage, and how he used it to show class (well-to-do hobbits vis-a-vis common or rustic hobbits) and quality of character (good guys vis-a-vis bad guys).

I was wrong to think of "cock" and "balls" as more having a more modern feel, I see. I simply hadn't read around enough in older literature to know they were regularly used, as Teasel (or someone) pointed out. I knew "cock" was old, but had not thought it as old as the 17th century for designating "penis."

Ah, here's the link to Teasel's whole LJ entry and its replies:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/teasel/40025.html

~ Mechtild
(Anonymous) at 2005-07-19 13:31 (UTC) (Link)
Thanks for your reply, and I'll say that I agree with your feelings about reading out of character fanfic, especially about Frodo. I put it down, and don't go back. Now I'm not saying I've never written anything that's out of character to someone else, because readers tend to see him differently. I, personally, do not like slash. It always strikes me as out of character for both Frodo and Sam. But then, the movies struck me as portraying both Sam and Frodo a bit out of character, particularly Sam. It's a huge topic, with so many variables that one could discuss endlessly. I'll just read and write what I like and not worry about the rest. Someone else will like it! I was recently in a discussion where photoshopping was flamed. That's another can of worms!

WG
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 18:48 (UTC) (Link)

My apologies, White Gull!

I deleted your comment? I am sorry! I don't know how it happened. I did receive a comment notification earlier from you that showed up in my email, yet did not show up in the actual thread. Perhaps that was the one? But, however I deleted it, it was unintentional. I still am getting the hang of this thing, technically.

Oh, and I agree with you about morally weak Frodos!

~ Mecthild
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 18:54 (UTC) (Link)

Actually, White Gull....

I probably spoke too simply about disliking stories which portray Frodo as seriously Out Of-Character, per canon. Actually, I can think of several stories I love in which Frodo strays quite far from canon. However, none of these stories demean his character as a good and honourable person (even if the comic ones tease him a great deal).

There is a very fine, very prolific writer of S/F slash, for instance, who has written a story which I hate (although many hot-fic-fans love it), because in it she makes Frodo behave in a way that I think seriously compromises his moral goodness as a character. That sort of “OOC” behaviour in Frodo really takes me aback.

The very same author has written another story, in which she portrays an even more OOC Frodo [and Sam] (in a frankly ridiculous scenario), yet I love it. For starters, in this second fic, Frodo is presented as someone who, while ready and able to use his seductive wiles to the full, plays fair and does nothing I would consider “underhanded” in order to prevail.

What really helps me to enjoy this “OOC-Frodo” story is precisely that Frodo and Sam are so different from their canon selves. When I read it, I can see that they are Sam and Frodo; I recognize them from canon; but it is as if the two of them are actors in a play. As if the real Sam and Frodo were in a little theatricale: “Hobbiton Players Present New Hot Farce: Opens Tonight!”

In the story of hers I so disliked, her Sam and Frodo were, in fact, much closer to canon. But, somehow, that made the departures she made all the more insidious to me, putting me into a state of cognitive dissonance as I watched an otherwise charming, book-canon-ish Frodo, blithely and calculatedly use his friends, in order to secure his own ends.
(Deleted comment)
Ann
just_ann_now at 2005-07-19 10:49 (UTC) (Link)

Re: More on cock and balls - they're pretty old

Oh, cool, wonderful! Because I love the word "cock" (even though I've yet to write the fic in which I actually use it. But I will! I promise! Sometime.)

Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 12:33 (UTC) (Link)

Re: More on cock and balls - they're pretty old

Yes, Ann, do plunge ahead when you get the ... erm ... balls.

Certainly, considering your fic protagonists -- "manly" Men; soldiers -- these words would do very well to give a feel for their speech. You could even distinguish to whom they were speaking by their usage as Teasel suggested in her larger entry. For instance, a Faramir might not speak of his "balls" or "cock" in conversation with the Lady Eowyn (although, as a woman who has hung out for years with "the men", she probably has heard plenty!), but what he says getting his gear on (or off)with other men might be very different. Or so I should imagine.
igraine
igraine1419 at 2005-07-19 15:42 (UTC) (Link)
I love the way lj land works - you find yourself following link after link and then end up in a place you never knew existed, finding yourself enjoying something you never thought you'd like.

I've read a lot of fanfic, including RPS (something I used to avoid like the plague - thinking it a bit questionable, to be honest) but found myself rather enjoying (only EW/SE). I also found this wonderful world of most bizarre AU's - that call themselves RPS but don't feature the actors as themselves, but as other fictional characters - these I rather enjoy - I must admit, although some of them are quite ludicrous (but in a good way!):)

One of the most interesting fics I've discovered of late is a complex modern re-telling of the books by Beatrice Orme. Quite a challenge, but it came to mind when you were talking about RPS being more appropriate for the way in which characters behave in FPS. Being set in modern day New York, the writer has allowed herself the freedom to use modern language and expressions and has freed herself from the usual constraints of fanfic conventions. It's an amazingly powerful story (so far) - she hasn't yet completed.

I always thought that ratings were based on what characters did rather than how such things are described. I may need to re-think my own ratings in future - I tend to shy away from too vivid descriptions and as for the dreaded anatomical terms or slang words - well, I don't mind reading graphic things, but I do struggle to write them and tend to evade if possible, never being sure what is appropriate.





Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-19 15:55 (UTC) (Link)
Howdy, Igraine/Aisling! I am finishing up Ch. 12 of Threshold, but when I am done, I hope to read your Hourglass as promised.

I don't know about putting the real actors into the stories, but I think the idea of putting the fictional characters in other roles or situations could be very entertaining. I imagine it's been done, especially comically. (Sam and Frodo show up on Lost or something; "Save us, Mr. Frodo, but are you sure this is the Enchanted Isles to me?" *enter giant polar bear*)

If you look at the remarks I just simul-posted with you, below, you'll see me telling how I really enjoyed an S/F story, which portrayed them so OOC, it seemed to me as though they were actors in a play. That sounds somewhat like what you are talking about regarding these "AU" stories for RPF.

P.S. I'm having a little brain loss. You wrote, "I've read a lot of fanfic, including RPS (...) but found myself rather enjoying (only EW/SE)." Who is "SE"?

P.P.S. I very much like the sort of language you use in your hot scenes, Aisling. Hot but sensuous. No, I can't picture your Frodo doing any, "Wham, bam, thank you, ma'am." *grin*
lembas_junkie
lembas_junkie at 2005-07-23 01:17 (UTC) (Link)
Okay, I haven't even read much into the post yet, but I'm laughing already! :D "More on cock and balls - they're pretty old"...should make for interesting reading! :D And I just finished a seven day work stretch, too... ;)
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-23 02:35 (UTC) (Link)
A seven-day work stretch, Lembas? You definitely need a break!

Yes, the comments of Teasel and cara_chapel quoted above were extremely good and often quite amusing. They definitely helped alter some of my preconceptions about usage re: sexual terms in fanfics, although they did not alter my tastes. I still can't believe in an LotR noble character as noble if he uses what (to my ears) sounds like "low" language. For the Gaffer or the stable hands of Gondor use it, that's fine. But not the "well-bred" characters of Tolkien's invention. Cara implied that such characters may very well have spoken such low slang terms in "certain situations" -- why, even I have uttered obscenities when cut off in traffic (!!!), but that they would not normally. I think she is right, as I said above.\\~ Mechtild
~ Mechtild
Maewyn
maewyn_2 at 2005-07-23 03:25 (UTC) (Link)
Hi Mechtild! This is my very first reply in LJ! Woo hoo!

I'd like to comment here on "character" and "real person" stories. I've read many, many stories based on LOTR characters. Most I've enjoyed, some I've found to be so-so. I usually read the whole story, good or bad. I can usually put aside whether the characters are portrayed as canon or non-canon (if it's a good story, I'll read it!).

I'm most certainly a romantic, and prefer by far, Frodo het stories. I love it when "he gets the girl", and have no difficulty picturing it in my mind! (I can *see* Rosamunda!)

I'm not a real fan of slash, but have read many stories that I've enjoyed, as the writer has portrayed those characters in a realistic way (in other words, the events in the story unfold logically, according to how the characters are portrayed in the settings that have been written).

However, when it comes to RP slash, it just turns me off. I feel it's a total invasion of those people's privacy. I just can't read it. On a few occasions, I've followed a link to a story, and the moment I've seen the actors' real names in there, I'm out of there really fast! I feel embarrassed on their behalf. Imagine if someone wrote one of those stories with you as the main character, doing things you may, or may not do - and you hadn't given permission for your name (or body) to be used in that way! Ugh! Just my two cents' worth!

As for the use of descriptive language for male/female body parts, I'm very comfortable with euphemisms! The use of "base" or slang words just grates with me if they're used out of context of the story (as has been commented upon above)!

As for Harry Potter, I'm another late-starter. I'm up to "The Prisoner of Azkaban", and it'll take quite a while to get up to the most recent book. I only manage to get in a half-hour's read during my lunch hour (half-hour?) at work. At this stage it still feels very much like a children's book. I'm assured it gets more interesting as I get further along...


Maewyn
Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-23 04:40 (UTC) (Link)
Maewyn! *Big smooch*

That was a thoughtful, interesting post.

You wrote,

However, when it comes to RP slash, it just turns me off. I feel it's a total invasion of those people's privacy. I just can't read it. On a few occasions, I've followed a link to a story, and the moment I've seen the actors' real names in there, I'm out of there really fast! I feel embarrassed on their behalf. Imagine if someone wrote one of those stories with you as the main character, doing things you may, or may not do - and you hadn't given permission for your name (or body) to be used in that way! Ugh! Just my two cents' worth!

This was very well described and I felt what you were describing. Yet, not as a defense but as an explanation for why the "stars" don't get more outraged over it, it really isn't the same when such stories are discovered starring them, than if such tales were discovered starring you or me.

People expect license to be taken in relation to the lives and reputations of celebrities. It is part of their job description to appear in gossip columns and scandal rags. It is not, however, part of yours or mine. If it were brought to a star's attention publically that there were a pile of stories out there depicting him having torrid love affairs with his co-workers, he would laugh or shrug or roll his eyes or maybe be seriously affronted. But if it came out in your home town that there were dozens of stories being passed around about you or me having hot affairs with your co-workers (same-sex or het) -- with all the lurid details -- it would be quite a different situation!

This is not to excuse RPF; I only mean to suggest that what would precipitate a domestic/professional crisis for many of us in real life would be a mere annoyance for someone famous who was used to being made use of by the media and by his/her fans.
Maewyn
maewyn_2 at 2005-07-23 05:22 (UTC) (Link)
Mmm. I can see your point. I suppose they could shrug it off, accepting that it's just part and parcel of being a "celebrity". I wonder how many people would just rather not know what's going on out there, preferring not to think about it. What they don't know, they don't have to worry about.

Along a similar line, I remember reading of the incident where Elijah was confronted with a slashy drawing at a press conference somewhere. He was highly embarrassed, even while laughing it off in front of all those people there. He may well have reacted differently if he'd seen it in private (probably would have let fly with a few expletives), but in public, he would have had no time to mask his shock in front of all those people.

Thank goodness I'll never be a celebrity!


Maewyn

Mechtild
mechtild at 2005-07-23 05:47 (UTC) (Link)
Maewyn, you wrote,

Along a similar line, I remember reading of the incident where Elijah was confronted with a slashy drawing at a press conference somewhere. He was highly embarrassed, even while laughing it off in front of all those people there. He may well have reacted differently if he'd seen it in private (probably would have let fly with a few expletives), but in public, he would have had no time to mask his shock in front of all those people.

I remember that incident very well, Maewyn, and saw a clip of the incident right after it occurred. Watching it my bosom swelled with pride for EW, the person who brought Frodo to the screen with such ... appeal.

However, my take on it was just the opposite from yours, even then when I had not even heard of RPF.

I figured EW probably knew about such things from the general buz, or, certainly from his agent. It merely was jarring to be presented with the stuff in a public press conference. Yet I thought however much he wanted to distance his real-life persona from the slash photo-manip material presented to him (which seemed clear), it seemed like the sort of stuff which, had he brought it back to the privacy of a hotel room, would have had all his friends and aquaintance guffawing, having a fine time teasing him -- "You have been working out extra-hard to have looked so buff in those shots..." with equally and surprisingly buff Sam.

But that's just my take on it. *grin*

~ Mechtild
Previous Entry  Next Entry